tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC March 15, 2019 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
cory booker plays "hardball" monday night. and a special town hall event. be sure to tune in early and that's "hardball" for now. "all in" with chris hayes starts now. >> tonight on "all in". >> clearly what has happened here is an extraordinary and unprecedented act of violence. >> horror in new zealand. a white nationalist terrorist attacks two mosques, killing 49 people during friday prayer. >> i just don't understand why someone would hurt us like this and in such a way. >> reporter: tonight reaction to the atrocity and the right-wing extremism behind it. >> i don't really. i think it's a small group of people that have very serious problems. then donald trump tries to
spin his massive defeat. >> congress has the power to pass this resolution and i have the duty to veto it. plus what the latest robert mueller and how a defamation could forts the president to testify under oath. "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. frin chris hayes. it's been nearly a day since the terrorist attack in which a gunman massacred 49 men, women and children in two new zealand mosques. a manifesto includes anti-muslim rhetoric and references the president of the united states in a mock quiz reading quote were/are you a supporter of donald trump? as a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose? sure.
trump was asked about the spread of white nationalism at a white house event earlier today. >> do you think that white nationalism is a threat around the world? >> i don't really. i think it's a small group of people that have very serious problems. if you look at what happened in new zealand, perhaps that's the case. they're just learning about the person and the people involved. but it's certainly a terrible thing. >> trump did not publicly comment on the attack for 11 hours before posting on twitter quote my warmest sympathy and best wishes goes out to the people of new zealand after the horrible massacre in the mosques. 49 innocent people have so senselessly died. with so many more injured. the u.s. stands with you. and he followed with a tweet asking the jewish people to leave the democratic party.
accusing the fbi and doj and cia of quote looking to take him out. his tirade included a litany of his greatest hits. stating there should be no mueller report and ending with this should never happen to a president again exclamation point. speak earlier, new zealand's prime minister says when trump asked what he could do to help, she told him sympathy and love for all muslim communities. it's surprising considering everything donald trump has said about muslims in the past. >> donald j. trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on. yes, we have to look at mosques. we have no choice. we have to see what's happening.
because something is happening in there. >> there's a problem in this country and it's called muslims. we know our current president is one. you know he's not even americ american birth certificate, man. anyway, we have training camps where they want to kill us. that's my question. >> we're going to be looking at a lot of different things and a lot of people are saying that and a lot of people are saying that bad things are happening out there. we're going to be looking at that and plenty of other things. >> i think islam hates us. there's a tremendous hatred there. there's a tremendous hatred. >> a study going back to 1970 found that in the u.s. 73.3% of all extremists related fatalities can be linked to domestic right-wing extremists while 23.4% can be attributed to
islam extremists. the refusal to condemn white supremacy have undermined america's moral authority when events like what hand in new zealand take place. one question for each will be how and if a new president can get that authority back. joining me now is one of the candidates, former secretary of housing and urban development under poemp. president obama. thank you for being here. >> great to be with you, joy. >> i want to play with for you what the director of care on the american islamic relations. said the following about donald trump. take a listen. >> it is no secret that mr. trump has campaigned on white supremacist ideology, on division and fear. and now we see that he was able to normalize islamaphobia and to
give legitimacy to those who fear muslims and fear immigrants. it comes back to him and we tell him that your words matter and your policies matter. and he would like to be the leader of the free world. he has to change his policies. and he has to reset the tone by recommitting himself to unity, equality, not only in words but also in policies. so he has a lot to do and we hope that he will take the first step by condemning this as a white supremacist attack. >> when the president of the united states is spoken of that way in the wake of an attack like what happened in new zealand, how do we get back our moral authority to be able to respond in a profound way when something like what happened in new zealand takes place?
>> unfortunately i think as many have said, this president has lost his moral authority in different ways. he lost it around charlottesville when he said there were very fine people. those neo-nazis marching in the streets shouting racial epitaphs and we can always hope that the president is going to realize the error of his ways or be pressured into taking a different posture or coming at this differently and trying to unify the country and -- instead of of fanning the flames of division, try to build unity in this contry and how people view muslims and islam, i don't think that's going to happen. that's one of the reasons we need new leadership. in the meantime, i do think everybody else, all of us who recognize that we should try and build unity, who recognize that
the act of a few people don't speak for either all white people or any other group when they commit terrorist acts. and who certainly recognize differently from donald trump that islam does not hate americans oor the united states. it's up to us to speak out from our positions of leadership and authority in our houses of worship. what we teach in schools, all of us as mothers and fathers and what we teach our children. we have to rebuild that up from the ground because the president's leadership is entirely missing and we can't count on donald trump to do that. >> and he was elected by lots and lots of people. he has a party that's 100% unified behind him. as we saw only 12 managed to
walk away from him, based on a idea of a hoard coming at the southern border. if you're sworn in as president in january, when you go abroad, what story do you tell about us as a country that changes the current view? >> well, i woulded tell the story of the way that after the synagogue shooting in pittsburgh that there were muslim americans who comforted jewish americans who had been harmed, whose family members had been killed. a community that had been completely shaken and that today there were jewish americans that were comforting muslim americans and all different backgrounds that showed the character of our nation. that character is not reflected by donald trump.
all we have to do is show them the character of this country and once we have new leadership, we are going to have a president with moral authority and the ability to go to other countries and say it's a new day in the united states. and that we're here to build aliances and believe in others and not to tear those things down. >> really appreciate your time. thank you. and joining me is staff writer at "the atlantic." his latest piece "white nationalism deep american roots." and a presenter on aljuzeerau's english up front. you is a brilliant piece in "the atlantic" which is jarring for even those of us who think we got a decent american history. frors you talk about even that
inspired even the nazi ideology in germany. is that to say that this ideology is embedded in a way that is inextrickable from american history? >> it's one side of an argument we've been having as americans since this country was founded. is this fundamentally a white and christian country and that is just the fundamental part of its identity without which it's no longer america or is it a place where anybody can be american? any race, creed or color? and i think we've been having that argument since the country was founded. what i was trying to do with this essay is contextualize the fact that trump is not anything new. in fact 100 years ago we were having a very similar political ka
conversation and in many ways was much more grim. >> it is jarring to hear the president of the united states's name dropped in an insane manifesto o manifesto by somebody who commits an act like this. americans americansic looking at new zealand and feeling afraid >> and depressed and worried. and you're right to mention the president of the united states. it isn't normal for him to be mentioned in the manifesto as some kind of inspirational, sharing a common purpose. but this guy wasn't the first to do that. i wrote a piece after the pittsburgh synagogue, the guy with the pipe bombs who was arrested and just before the pittsburgh shooting about the number of people that have been arrested in the u.s. there was a guy quebec city.
who was inspired by trump as well when he was interviewed. this is not a one off. and this is not new. and trump is an enabler of white nationalism. he's the prominent islamaphobe. so when we see an islamaphobic mass murder, yes, and i'm glad you play that. it is deeply depressing, i say this as the father of two muslim american kids. how do you tell them about how the president doesn't care about their safety. and he says no, it's a small group of people. of course because they're his people. >> and as i said to the secretary, there's a whole infrastructure supporting the presidency and at the moments that includes the courts. this ban on travellers, that was sold as a muslim ban ultimately
got upheld. policies that have to be jarring, even as they receive the sympathy of so many people around the country. do we have to have a deeper conversation about the ability to empathize with our muslim brothers and sisters period? >> i think politically the country strongly rejected donald trump's politics, anti-immigrant, anti-muslim politics in the mids terms. i think this is really a question, again, it's a struggle about who amare is going to be. and when you look at stuff like the muslim ban, that in particular is extraordinary because the supreme court essentially gave donald trump a road map. they said as long as leave the really obvious language out of oit, we'll be okay with it. as long as you don't say muslim in the ban, it's fine. i think we're headed for a lot
more bumps in the road beyond just this. >> and fthere's a global thing happening partly driven by war, climate change and violence. and a lot of the does center on the muslim world. you look at new zealand. they don't have the kind of gun violence we have here. is it this kind of thing that makes you think more globally whether or not that movement spurring white nationalism around the world, is there something that can be done to counteract it? >> the prime minister in new zealand says they're going to tighten up their gun laws after one mass shooting. not thoughts and prayers. perhaps a message to american. look across western europe, eastern europe, look australia, new gezealand.
it's a real problem. we have to be able to talk about the people mainstreaming it. it's easy to say the david dukes, richard spencers. even trump can attack them. let's talk about mainstream journalists and commentators. pundits. the kind of hate speech and islamaphobia they're trafficking in cable news, on national newspapers. you read the manifesto from this horrific individual in new zealand and that's language you see and hear on cable news and magazines. are we going to call out islamaphobia on the other 364 days of the year as well? >> it's a important conversation to have. really appreciate it. and coming up after the congress issued a major rebuke on his border wall, in a stunning scene, how it puts him and his fellow republican. puts
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to override the will of congress, he indulged in his favorite form of affirmation, surrounded by people who applauded his beld move the circumvent congress and the constitution. because doesn't every president who lack as support of the majority of the country need be told just how wonderful they are? >> mr. president, thank you always for your leadership and great support. >> your declaration of an emergency on the southern border was clearly authorized under the law. >> i don't know that i've ever been more proud to be standing next to your desk than i am today. thank you for keeping your word, mr. president. >> appreciate it. >> our hats are off to you again, sir. it's an honor to be here. >> we commend you, applaud you and i salute you sir. >> god bless you for what you're doing. >> resident scholar at the american enterprise institute
and political analyst, and former chair of the republican national committee. i think the two of you -- i cannot believe how amazing you both are. truly. i mean oh, my god. >> right back at you, joy. >> you're just fantastic. >> the way you tied your tie is just amazing. >> vice presidential material, joy. >> i have to start looking a bit more longingly when i talk to you all and i'll get it together. it strikes me that donald trump felt today was strengthening him, that he was showing the 12 republicans what for by showing how much support he has. i wonder if you'll agree with me he's weakened them. because when all the southwestern united states senators, people like ted cruz go back to their constituents, how do they protect their
constituents snow >> they got out of the constituent protection business quite a while ago. i don't think that's first and foremost on their mind. what is, is being primaried or being weakened sufficiently how trump supports them during the reelection and makes them vulnerable to democrats next year. i have a different slant on what today was about. to me the vote of the 12 was rather meaningless. it's not a big deal. you can't override my veto. i still win. so this was a win regardless of how people want to go back and say republicans -- they showed the president. they stood strong. put up 67 votes. put up a veto number in the house and then you will have drawn that line in the sand with the president.
but today the president was gloating as he typically does. he's not weakened at all. he's strengthened by this and that's pretty much what he was doing, shrt of dancing around the desk, this was his moment. >> only one of the republicans werer actually up for reelection in 2020 and that would be susan collins who voted with the 12. but of the rest of the republicans, 19 voted with him. how do you have a constitutional republic with checks and balances if one half of the first branch is too afraid to use its checks and balances? >> let me point out by pointing to a stunning poll. 4% of democrats approve. that's the largest in history
since we've been recording these things in terms of a partisan gap. but as long as 90% of republicans approve of trump, most of them are going to run scared and not take them on no matter what. and if you look at it the rational who voted against him in this case, it was not we're going to fight against executive power and this over reach by donald trump. it was if we allow this to happen, the next democratic president is going to run over us with the medicare with for all or whatever. so they were trying to avoid taking on trump. and when you look at the responses of people -- cringe-worthy responses by tillis and sass, the ones who fear a primary challenge and reversing themselves, basically and abandoneding all of their principals, it doesn't tell us a
lot of very good things about checks and balances from a party who has basically gone all in with whatever outrages trump promotes or proposes. >> i'm old enough to remember when the kilo decision outraged the entire right. this was a supreme court decision about the government being able to take people's land and that was a thing republicans cared about. what are the chances somebody like ben sass draw as tea party-style challenge of someone who says you're not a constitutional conservative. i'm running against you. >> it is more than likely that challenge will come from someone who is double, triple, quadruple bound with donald trump and will hold up whatever littler daylight that may exist between someone like ben sass and the president as a reason why he should be taken down. so if it's coming from his right, it's going to be someone
who's more aligned with trump than incumbent and that's what has a lot of these individuals in the senate and the house nervous about 2020. they've got double problems. they've got their right flank where trump loyalists are looking to take them on. and then on their left flank they've got center right dmps. and particularly in the purplish states and states that hillary clinton won who are poised to take their seats anyway. so my thing is do on the principals and not on donald trump. >> send them a memo. i know you're quite exercised about and i think a lot of people were about the tough guy statement about having the police and all the tough guys and the military guys and bikers in his pocket. what is that? what is he doing when he's doing
that? >> that was the most significant and chilling news story before the horrible tragedy in new zealand. this is inciting or threatening violence. when you say i've got military and police and bikers for trump and things could get very bad. we know there are crazy people out there or people easily persuaded who will take that as a signal they better keep their assault weapons locked and loaded. and we also know there is a chance -- and it's something we have to consider, a worst-case-scenario, where mueller and others get close to trump, he might call on his people to take to the streets and that could bring us violence and that's where this declaration of emergency k which could be used to declare martial law is not something we should view as just alargest talk.
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what special counsel robert mueller is up to. the fifth time the sentencing of the former campaign manager was delayed because quote defendant gates continues to cooperate with respect to several ongoing investigations according to a joint status report to the court. but he's been cooperating with the mueller probe for more than a year to help us sort it all out, i'm joined by an journalist writing about national security on "empty wheel" and a former united states attorney for the southern district of california and a form superior court judge. you tweeted today that again several ongoing investigations could be sdny. greg craig, tony podesta, and side group possible cl. can you explain that quickly.
>> the thing is that the president's former deputy campaign manage knows so much about potential crimes that we don't know which of those investigations are ongoing or even if he's working on the mueller probe. the key ones are the inauguration which the manhattan federal prosecutors are looking into. he was very closely involved in that. so he would be a good witness there. paul manafort's contractors. tony podesta, vin weber. they're all under investigation in new york. psygroup was one of these spying groups that pitched him and others in the campaign. they were investigated under mueller but maybe on their own. elliott broidy is a big fund raiser. we know mueller investigated
some of the russian active measures. but there are people like kilimnik who might be under their own investigation in d.c. all of those would be things that deputy campaign manager would have a lot of information on, which may explain why it's been a year he's been cooperating. >> if you're the average person you're like this gentleman is still not being sentenced. is it typical to get this many opportunities to delay? and does that indicate a light sentence? >> it's very typical for defendants to have their sentences continued many, many times becausia can understand from the defendant's perspective and his lawyer's perspective, the longer they can put off the sentence is better for them and they want as much as they can to convince the judge they've done everything possible to
cooperate, including testifying in front of grand jurys, maybe ea in some instances, although probably not this one doing undercover calls and ultimately testifying at trial. it's much more likely the judge will accept a prosecutor's recommendation of a lighter sentence. i think another thing going on is there are 94 u.s. attorney's offices and they all like to do important and interesting cases. and when you have people like paul manafort and rick gates showing thereerant limitations to what kind of white collar crime they're willing to get involved in, they can leave a lot of bread crumbs in different districts and offices and they'll say hey, maybe there's something i should investigate. we know new york state has brought charges against manafort. maybe they're looking for cooperation from rick gates as well. there are lots of paths this
could take. >> is there any sense of who he is the biggest threat to? is it just more to pile on to paul manafort? >> it's absolutely donald trump. i remember when he flipped, somebody said he used to carry the president's phone. so he knows exactly what the president was daing during this whole time period. there are still rolls in court documents that we don't know who played that role. for example who is the one directed to get roger stone to reach out to wikileaks? stone himself said that was probably rick gates. so that ties stone right next to trump and that witness would know who ordered him to tell stone to go reach out to wikileaks. that's one example but there are going to be tons for gates.
>> and lastly i wonder if there's a sense you have that even if some of these guys are helping and cooperating, they still did a lot of bad stuff. it seems most of the people have gotten pretty light sentences. >> that's not a misunderstanding. but the ones that have very, very helpful inside knowledge, they're going to get a lot of credit for full forthcoming cooperation as opposed to limited cooperation that we've seen with some other people. if they really bear their souls and tell all, they're going to get light sentences, generally speaking. rick gates pled to a 51 month sentence. without that kind of consideration being given, you're not going to have important cooperating witnesses in the future. >> and people in the regular world are thinking how can i
bear my soul to get a similar shake? thank you both very much. and still ahead a court rules that the president can be sued for defamation, setting up a potential deposition. potential deposionti i felt i couldn't be at my best wifor my family. c, in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured and left those doubts behind. i faced reminders of my hep c every day. but in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured.
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they argued the president was immune to such lawsuits in state court. but a panel of judges disagreed, siting the it ruling in clinton v jones. we talk about how all this might shake out o, editor of "above the law.com. title "lawsuit with the best chance of putting trump under oath continues." >> this is the ultimate bill clinton leave behind. >> because republicans felt like they were spiking the football when they made bill clinton have to testify in the paula jones case. >> your last segment with marcy wheeler, she's very good. look, donald trump is in more legal jeopardy than any president in the united states in the history of the united states. i'm including jefferson davis in that. this is the way you put donald
trump under oath, talking about his sex wlt misconduct. if he lies, he ends up exactly where bill clinton ended up and people forget bill clinton was smart. he forgets the -- before he gets to the predicate. this is what bill clinton got impeached for. getting cute under oath about sexual misconduct and now all of that can happen with donald trump. >> so donald trump will have two choices in this deposition. he can lie, which is perjury, or he can tell the truth and then what happens? >> let's assume he lies because that's his thing. that opens him up to all these perjury issues and obstruction issues and is very bad for him if we geby the precedent set bay the clinton years. if he tells the truth, then he's -- remember we are now up to 23 women who have accused
donald trump of sexual misconduct. we have a tape where donald trump explains how he sexually misconducted himself in his own words. if he tells the truth about his motes apren die, that opens him up to lawsuits from pretty much everybody. remember donald trump's entire defense has been shagy. wasn't me. i didn't do it. a all these people are liars. so if he tells the truth and says yes, i did do this, then all the other women have an opportunity to access justice. it's not good place. he should keep his hands to himself. >> that's what he said in the tape, right? now, during the bill clinton saga the smart people said why didn't he just settle? if donald trump were to settle, does that open a cascade of money going out the door?
>> i think reason why is because he can't settle because she doesn't want his money anymore. she doesn't want the fake money he has. she wants to be treated with dignity and respect and that's the one thing trump is unable to treat women with. i don't think she's getag settle for anything less than a full apology i don't see trump givling her. >> if donald trump were to lie,er who would be the court that would go after him? twd be new york state or federal? >> the problem is -- and i think we're seeing with manafort. the penalties we have for perjury are actually not that great, especially if you happen to be a rich white man. what perjury is supposed to do when it happens from the chief executive of the united states is it's supposed to trigger the political process we call impeachment.
we're supposed to hold presidents to a higher standard, at least that's what republicans told me. >> apparently none of that is true when the president a republican. thank you for joining us. and just ahead what we're learning about the democratic hopefuls. e learning about the democratic hopefuls rt? well, i'm managing my a1c, so i should be all set. right. actually, you're still at risk for a fatal heart attack or stroke. even if i'm taking heart medicine, like statins or blood thinners? yep! that's why i asked my doctor what else i could do... she told me about jardiance. that's right. jardiance significantly reduces the risk of dying from a cardiovascular event for adults who have type 2 diabetes and heart disease. that's why the american diabetes association recommends the active ingredient in jardiance. and it lowers a1c? yeah- with diet and exercise. jardiance can cause serious side effects including dehydration. this may cause you to feel dizzy, faint, or lightheaded, or weak upon standing. ketoacidosis is a serious side effect
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with wells fargo's 3% down payment on a fixed-rate loan and a simpler online application, getting into my dream home was easier than ever. get your human to visit wellsfargo.com/woof. what would she do without me? democratic presidential hopefuls are fanning out across the country and in those early voting states. senator kirsten gillibrand at new york spoke in new hampshire where senator cory booker also campaigned today. that's not the only thing they have in common. you can see both of them here on msnbc on monday. senator cory booker will be on hardball on monday and senator kirsten gillibrand of new york will be in michigan with our very own chris hayes for the very first msnbc candidate town hall and you can see it in person. just head to all in dot
this and even this. but i don't have to clean this, because the self-cleaning brush roll removes hair, while i clean. - [announcer] shark, the vacuum that deep cleans, now cleans itself. it is 599 days until the presidential election, mark your calendars. and we've already got 11 officially declared candidates with potentially more to come including a listers like joe biden and stacey abrams. here to talk about what the field looks like now and on
election day, democratic strategist and a fellow at the harvard university of politics. let's go to cornell, first. cornell, this field is so big and will probably get bigger. is there anything like a front runner now, and what happens to it if biden and/or harris get in? >> no. i don't think you have a front runner even with biden getting in. if you look at that -- the iowa registry poll, the headline was biden leads, but he was only ahead of the pack by 2 points. you have a race right now that looks like 2004 than it did like in 2008 or in 2016. and why i say that, you have a crowded field of a lot of -- where i think a lot of a listers. and like 2004 when you had lieberman and kerry, you had a lot of candidates all bust
around 15, 16, 17 percentage points in the national polls and i think you're going to have the same sort of thing right now. i think the candidate who -- who's probably that outsider candidate, who can show some electability, i like their chances. although, the dynamics of this race haven't unfolded and i don't think we've seen anything quite like this in modern times. >> meanwhile, you have beto o'rourke coming in with all this buzz, the democratic party has liked the southern white male candidate. does he have an advantage even though he doesn't have a platform other than anti the wall. >> we have to acknowledge that the man is elect fieing. he speaks in a way where he's got a lot of energy. they don't go deep yet to figure out what his experience is. and i think that matters. i think people want to be
excited by the candidate. they want to feel like somebody is speaking to them and beto does that to them. it remains to be seen, when all of these candidates are on the stage, i think there are several of them that are really great that have a lot of energy and enthusiasm and so i think that we're going to start to see that energy is what matters to people. people want someone who can stand up next to trump, look better than him, and i think beto gives us that energy. >> statement, cornell, you now have the battle of the white guys, which is beto, biden, and bernie, but then you might have three african-american candidates, if stacey abrams would get it in, you would have herself, harris and booker. what would that do for a race in south carolina? >> i think it's a wide open race. and i think it's a wide open race either way. i don't think -- i think if you look back at past histories here, i have to beat up a lot of reporters about this because they think just the african-american voters are
going to naturally vote for the african-american candidate which is not true in the history of our primaries or he would have hat a democratic nominee before barack obama. and barack obama started out 20 points behind in south carolina to hillary clinton. i think all these candidates are going to have to work hard for it. i will say this, i think it gives the white candidates a greater opportunity to compete here especially if the african-american are splitting the vote. you could have a white candidate who can carry 25, 30% of the black vote in south carolina and gather some of the white vote. >> at the same time, the south, it just happens to be -- it was the place where bernie sanders seeded the election. he know black voters are important. when you talk about supertuesday, about half those primaries, take out texas and california, are in the south.
is there any candidate who you can look at right now and say that's the kind of candidate who could sweep a supertuesday or at least get three or four primaries on that night? >> my opinion about stacey abrams getting into this race, i think she does best on supertuesday largely because she was down there exciting people most recently. i think she kind of gets that vote right now for me. in terms of who can sweep, i agree with cornell. i think that -- i don't rule out biden just because there are enough people who are trying to cobble together and competing for those african-american voters in that region that might leave a plurality, they might go for him, they might go for beto. i'm not a pollster so i leave it to my friend to give us the expert advice. my gut tells me, it is so early, we are going to be surprised come next february. >> yes or no question, do castro
and beto cancel each other out? >> no. but i will say this quickly, whoever we know is a front runner has not done well in our primaries. so look out. >> that was not one word. thank you, guys very much. the rachel maddow show starts right now. >> you hit it on the post. boom. both feet on the tape. >> stuck the landing. >> thanks to you all at home for joining us this hour. happy friday. this have been a very newsi week. we got a lot to get here tonight. including someone who's you're very much going to want to see with me later on this hour. the dominant news story in our country and around the world is what happened in new zealand where new zealand is still reeling and i think much of the world is still reeling today after yesterday's shootings at two mosques